Married Romance interviews
Gay Hendricks, Ph.D.
Kathlyn Hendricks, Ph.D.
Authors of
Lasting Love
The 5 Secrets of Growing a Vital, Conscious Relationship

Looking at our families, friends, and communities, it's hard to find very many people in long-term relationships who are both thriving as creative individuals and growing closer as lovers at the same time. "That's because the norm in these relationships tends toward comfort and compromise," explain Gay and Kathlyn Hendricks. Our guests discuss how to break out of that norm, and introduce some very vital communication tools that can generate passion and harmony and transform your relationship!

Kathlyn and Gay: To create and sustain lasting love, you need to establish your connection as a priority. Especially in the era of child-raising, your relationship can take a back burner to the very real needs of your family. First, make a commitment to give some special attention to just each other each week. You can have a babysitter stay a little later and go for a walk (roller-blading, ice-skating, etc.) for an hour where you just focus on being together. You could read to each other from a favorite book. You could take dance or cooking lessons together at home from a video, or take turns massaging each other's feet. There are many "date" events you can arrange without leaving home that you can mix with those times you find it convenient to get away.

T.M.: My husband isn't very verbally expressive. I know he loves me, but it would be nice to hear some loving words. What are some things I/we can do to get him to open up more? Thank you.

Kathlyn and Gay: This is one of the most common complaints in relationships, usually uttered by the woman. In our book Lasting Love we give many suggestions for bridging the communication gap that sometimes exists between mates, and for making a space inside yourself to really listen to your husband. To start with, I recommend appreciating your husband for his essence qualities, things about him that you love. I recommend appreciating him for what he does do that makes your life sweeter. Give him one additional appreciation each day than you did today. These acts will open a magic gate where you see him differently, as an ally, and where he can open up to becoming more emotionally transparent with you about all kinds of things.

Sandy: I feel like my husband and I are stuck in a rut. Our relationship feels stale, but not unloved. What are some ways to get back the passion we once had?

Kathlyn and Gay: Hi, Sandy. There are lots of things to do to rekindle romance, and we discuss and list many of them in Lasting Love. The quickest way to rekindle romance, actually two quick ways, are to say something that can't be argued about, like what you are feelings, what something reminds you of, or a body sensation. The second is to appreciate yourself and your husband liberally. We give a list to get your started in Lasting Love. Also, putting more of a focus on your creativity, opening up to expressing yourself in new ways, whether it's making a new soup, taking dance lessons or writing a poem, creativity brings fresh breezes into a relationship. Good luck to you.

Mike: Kathlyn and Gay, what is "whole person learning" as mentioned on this page?

Kathlyn and Gay: Whole-person learning is using the natural wisdom of the body, such as your breathing and movement, to explore issues and problems and open up to what you really want. We focus on learning how to breathe, move and communicate in a way that stimulates curiosity and shifts people into the state of consciousness in which problems can easily be resolved and harmony and love can be enhanced.

Kathlyn and Gay: I encourage you to first really appreciate yourselves for your commitment to having children and being allies for each other in this very intense treatment. I imagine it's difficult to remember the end result your desire, a child of your own, in the midst of all the invasive procedures and disruptions of your natural romantic impulses. I also recommend that you and your husband give a lot more attention to non-sexual touch and being together in sensual rather than sexual ways right now so you take the pressure off yourselves to "be natural" in what is inherently an un-natural situation. Give each other back massages, rub some of your favorite lotion on each other's feet, lie down and breathe together with a hand on each other's stomach. There are many ways to pleasure each other that will give you an increased sense of trust and intimacy to complete this journey successfully. Blessing to both of you!

Julie: My husband and I have two children. We don't always agree on discipline. I think he's too strict and he thinks I'm too lenient. Any time I try to bring the topic up, he gets resentful and defensive. How can we come up with a compromise if he won't even talk about it?

Kathlyn and Gay: Julie, many parents experience the polarity you describe, the too tough vs. the too mushy problem. Given the differences in your own families growing up, the parenting styles you saw around you in the culture, it's not surprising that you encounter some bumps in raising your children. I encourage you to first make a whole-hearted, whole-body commitment yourself (this is the first secret in Lasting Love) to being an ally with your husband in raising your children and communicating healthy responsibility to them. You can step into this commitment and let your husband experience you as an ally rather than his enemy. How might this look? I imagine you would find yourself listening generously to what he really wants when he seems too strict. Your open listening (we talk about this in Lasting Love in a section called The Art of the Toss) can generate his willingness to be more open with you in listening to your contributions and for some magic to occur. I also recommend that you make a little bit of time each week to talk over what you both really want for your children so you experience the places where you agree as a foundation for negotiating the places where you may have different points of view. Our students and readers also find it useful to ask, "Where did I learn this way of disciplining or thinking about responsibility?" It's useful to continue to sort what you currently want from what you inherited.

Christine: I was intrigued by your list of five "secrets" and am wondering if you could talk about them a little bit. I realize that you can't say much here, and I will buy the book. I guess I'm particularly interested in #4: Deep-seated commitment problems.

Kathlyn and Gay: Dear Christine, here's a short course:

Make a new kind of commitment: Get in the game, put your whole body, whole heart into actions that will begin leading you toward what you want. Whenever you have a recurring drama in your relationship, look for the underlying commitment problem. It will usually be one of three problems: one or both are not really committed, that is, IN, the relationship; an underlying unconscious commitment has more force than the spoken conscious one (you can identify the unconscious commitment very quickly by looking at the actual result you are creating, such as conflict or broken agreements), or, someone has one foot out the door and is not fessing up.

Learn to be emotionally transparent: Learn to recognize the body signals of anger, sadness and fear and make friends with these feelings. Learn to listen to your partner's feelings and encourage him or her to feel more. All feelings come out of the same faucet and lead to more creativity, closeness and sexual openness.

Make a commitment to creating a no-blame relationship by stopping blaming and criticizing. Instead, open up to wonder, such as, "Hmmm, how am I creating this?" "Hmmm, what can I learn from this?"

Appreciate, appreciate, appreciate: Be sensitively aware of yourself and your mate, focus on giving verbal valentines every day, and see your partner as an evolving work of art.

Spend ten minutes MORE a day doing something you love to do that is not intended to produce anything other than the pleasure of doing something you love to do. Many problems in relationship have their source in unexpressed creativity.

Traci: It seems like the stress in life, house, kids, jobs, money, overwhelm us sometimes and we can't find a way to relax and enjoy a quiet evening together without worrying about everything else. Any tips to help us relax and go with the flow?

Kathlyn and Gay: This is such an important question and issue! There are a couple of things we have discovered in the course of our marriage that we talk about in Lasting Love that can make a huge difference. One, put your creative expression first. First in the day, first in your priorities. There is ALWAYS more to do in the business of life and your family, so if you wait until you have time, you won't. We've found that it only takes ten minutes a day where you focus on doing something you love to do-such as doodling, painting, dancing, making a new soup-to refresh you for the whole day, and change your focus so you feel more relaxed. When you fill up your creative well first thing, everything else seems to go easier. Second, in the midst of life, change your routines as much as you can. Have dinner at a different time, brush your teeth with your other hand, take a different route to work, etc. These small but invaluable shifts keep you in the flow when you lose it. We also spend some time together every day simply being together and highly recommend it: breathing, meditating, sitting on the porch swing. Remember, each new day you can re-commit and move in the direction that gives you more flow, even if you forget.

January: I have noticed something in my behaviour to my husband that I don't particular like. I don't understand it, so I'm not sure how to "fix it." If there is something that I had an interest in and he begins to show an excessive interest in it also, I begin to back off. Specifically, I used to enjoy antiquing, flea markets etc. My husband would accompany me and at some point, he began to show a greater interest in it than I had. He has started collecting glassware and it has become his passion! We aren't into debt because of it, but he is constantly reviewing all the reference books he has all the time (there are a lot!) and just lives for the hunt of the glass. Now this would be a very nice hobby for the both of us, but since our daughter's birth (she's 4 years old), collecting and going antiquing has taken a back seat. But not for him. I find that I feel kind of jealous regarding his hobby. It's almost like "the other woman." As I write this it seems so silly, but that is how I feel. I remind myself that he could be hanging out at bars or womanizing. Glass collecting is really rather harmless when you get down to it. Is this normal? What can I do about my feelings?

Kathlyn and Gay: I hear that you are in the midst of a major transition with the birth of your daughter. Bringing a child into your primary relationship with each other is enormous and often brings up memories of relationships with parents and siblings. It's quite normal to surface jealousy and competition. What's important is to get friendly with your feelings and let yourself learn to share them in a way that doesn't blame anyone. I suspect (we talk about this in the emotional transparency section of Lasting Love) that you may be feeling sad and scared under your jealousy. When couples talk about what they are scared of, more closeness and flow of intimacy results.

May: It has been a frustration in the three years that my husband and I have been married concerning the role of raising our children. It feels like the role of raising our two children has happened to become "my" job and I am feeling like his mother as well (shouldering the entire household load). In my husband's family, he is the oldest and cared for his four younger brothers and sisters a LOT - I feel like he is transferring that frustration from then over to our family's dynamic. We have talked about it and he has said it isn't true but I was wondering if there is a way I can either help him to see this or help him to work past it so we can be co-parents together. Thank you!

Kathlyn and Gay: I feel a lot of appreciation that you are opening this question and giving others the opportunity to learn with you. When people have children, their children's growth, exploration and challenges quite naturally bring up unresolved issues for the parents. I recommend first loving yourself for feeling the way you feel, that is, give yourself the same love you give to your children no matter what they are feeling. Then, ask your husband if he would be willing to create a new way of child raising that is friendly to each of you. Making a new commitment, even if you don't know how, opens the gate to new discoveries. And please give yourself time to discover the new path.

Deb: Hello. I have been with my husband 20 years. We've been married twice ('87 and '92). He is 45 years old and I am 44 years old. I love him but I don't think I am in love with him. We have lost just about all communication and sexual contact. We might make love twice a month. He shows me very little affection or appreciation. He works pretty normal hours but he always is too tired or hurts somewhere to do anything. We sit at home 99.9% of the time. We only go somewhere or do something if it is what he wants. I do it just to be doing something. We have 3 girls (the 2 oldest from my previous marriage). But he has been around since the older girls were 3 and 5, so they do consider him Dad. They are 26 and 24 now. Our daughter, together is 18. We were going to try to have a boy, but after my youngest daughter, I wasn't able to have any more children. He always wanted a boy. My oldest daughter had a baby very young, a boy! It turned out that my daughter couldn't handle the baby, so we took him and adopted him. My husband was excited, finally his boy! He is now 9 years old. I thought he would take him fishing, hunting, the things most dads do with their sons. He does nothing. Because again he is too tired or hurts too much. It is left up to me to teach my son the 'boy' things. I am so close to leaving. I figure if I'm doing this alone, I might as well be alone. But the problem is, this is the only life I have known for the past 20 years. My girls adore him, as well as the rest of my family. I feel if I was to leave, I would be letting everyone down. I am really confused right now. And to be honest, I am to the point to where I don't care if it lasts with us or not. Seems that we have nothing left between us. Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks for your time, Deb

Kathlyn and Gay: It sounds as if you have been feeling a lot of pain for a while. And it sounds as if you have confused your relationship with your husband with his relationship with your kids. They are really two separate arenas. I suggest you let go of trying to control how they all feel about him and focus on what you really want. I imagine that you have a lot of unexpressed feelings (maybe some layers that are buried under your anger and disappoint that might surprise you). I encourage you to explore those (we discuss this in Lasting Love) before you decide what to do. We generally tell people who ask when to leave: when the pain outweighs the possibilities. Only you know if that is so for you. Good luck to you.

Dawn: Well, I have so many questions. But lately it seems like all my husband and I do is fight! He has become very negative and we just argue a lot. How can I get it like it used to be? Or at least were we can talk better?

Kathlyn and Gay: In your next argument, first agree to be friendly, then drop out the words and make sounds, move around like animals until you feel a shift and get more lively. While you are playing with this, make a new commitment (we discuss this in Lasting Love) to stop blaming and criticizing. It's SO important to make a new commitment because this will give you a place to come home to and to steer your learning by re-committing when you drift. Instead of fighting, put your attention on developing your creativity and expressing genuine appreciations for each other. You can learn to talk after you learn to be with each other.

Karen: I read about your book here on this site and on Amazon and I think I'm going to purchase it and read it, in hopes that it will help my husband and me with some of our issues. My concern is - how do I get my husband to read it? He's not into self-help books. He is first going to be defensive and wonder, "We have a problem?" How do I approach him, really?

Kathlyn and Gay: Lasting Love is written primarily for people who like each other and want to have an even more creative and fulfilling relationship. It is not written as a self-help book, rather as a celebration of the great possibilities of close relationship. I can tell you that we've heard from lots of women now that their men have been picking up the book (without being asked or nagged!) and reading it. One woman said her husband came in and told her, "Gosh, this makes a lot of sense. I'm enjoying this book." This was great news for us. One secret we share with women is, demonstrate what you're reading. The example is very attractive and often creates the opening for the man's curiosity and exploration. Thanks for asking.